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Reach
Megalo Engine

Bungie's most recent MP engine, as seen in Reach

#21 User is offline   Xerax 

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Posted 28 August 2011 - 03:56 AM

View Postkornman00, on 27 August 2011 - 11:04 PM, said:

Actually, after attending the Anniversary panel yesterday and having spent some time playing the new maps, I'm thinking they just added some new data fields which tweak certain aspects of the sandbox, instead of doing it all based on scripts (as that would just waste script space anyway).

When I was playing the new Prisoner (with the "No Bloom Slayer" or w/e gametype), I didn't notice bloom on any weapons except for the sniper rifle. I could have sworn they futzed with the grenade toss tho...my tosses in that game (didn't seem like it in others) seemed to be coming up short, like the gravity was higher on them.

Ah, damn. I just poped to check this thread because i was going to ask about making a no-bloom gametype early.

But the fact they may have touched the nades makes me sad, the ones in reach don't go as far as the ones in H1. No need to nerf them :(.

#22 User is offline   kornman00 

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Posted 05 October 2011 - 03:28 PM

I just took a look at the changes they made to the megalo variant and all they did was add 7 new (internal) floating point values. Five of them I'm betting are weapon (bloom related), the other two I'm betting are the armor lock and active camo adjustments.

#23 User is offline   Twinreaper 

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Posted 05 October 2011 - 04:50 PM

I have to ask.... does this mean that thru Megalo they can physically add new chunks of tag data or are they simply adding and editing them in memory? I tend to think memory, since adding the new chunk fields would prolly require a new compiled xex for it to recognize the new fields and not throw a shit fit.

#24 User is offline   kornman00 

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Posted 05 October 2011 - 11:12 PM

They're just overriding the stock tag data with the values stored in the megalo variant, they're not changing any of the tag definitions

#25 User is offline   Garzahd 

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 02:40 PM

Interesting, I like the idea of being able to essentially create your own balance mod without having to touch the .map files. I'm wondering how much flexibility they allow; if it is limited only to what they specify here: or if they enabled themselves to do even more they aren't telling us about (modify damage and ROF for weapons other than the pistol etc.)

Here's how I would implement given the changes they outlined in the article I linked:

Quote

1 boolean for bleed through damage on/off

1 floating point percentage value for bloom on all specified weapons OR a different float value for each weapon's bloom. If you're doing it that way then at least 3 different floats for [pistol,needle rifle,DMR] (I only noticed a difference in bloom for those 3)

1 boolean value for sticky grenade killing an armor locked player

1 floating point percentage damage/armor lock energy transference.

2 floating point values for active camo length (moving vs standing still)

1 boolean value for disabling swordblock

1 boolean value auto/semiauto for pistol

1 float value pistol ROF

1 float value pistol damage


Given that they haven't given us a gametype that modifies the pistol yet, and that the stickyAL/SwordBlock could be implemented differently than I thought. That gives us the (1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 2 + 1) 7 values you are seeing in the megalo variant. So, bloom is probably determined by one floating point which reduces bloom by a certain percentage across the board for the weapons specified in the TU. And, if 2 of the float values you saw in that variant have identical values, I'd wager those 2 are the "booleans" for sword block and sticky grenade on armor-lock.

Tell me, can modified gametypes be used on an "as-is" Xbox or do they require a J-tag as of now? Do they have to be resigned?

This post has been edited by Garzahd: 09 October 2011 - 05:00 PM


#26 User is offline   kornman00 

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 03:52 PM

Sword block was an engine fix, not a per-variant configuration.

Game variants modified outside of Reach need their own resigning but can still work on an untouched Xbox.

Reading the Aug 31 HBU (your link doesn't work), I gather the following things that can be configured
  • maximum cone of error on all headshot weapons (except sniper rifles) <- the bloom nonsense
  • How much the damage depletes your Armor Lock energy is configurable
  • the bonus time the player gets in Active Camo while standing still
  • the overall length of time the player can be in Active Camo
  • make the Magnum automatic
  • modify rate of fire of the Magnum
  • modify Magnum damage


Everything else in that article suggests it's a hard-fix (health/shield bleed, sword, etc). Don't really have the time to download/mod/test which is which in the new game variants though.

#27 User is offline   Garzahd 

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 05:42 PM

I did some testing and swordblock, sticky, bleedthrough are not hardcoded and are in fact determined in the variant. This is also suggested in the article:

Quote

Welcome to Halo: Reach Title Update 101.

Amid the hustle and bustle of the weekend, we gently released the specifics of the Title Update within the wilderness of our forum. We didn't go into much detail, though, so I thought it may be beneficial to elaborate upon the particulars and hopefully, by proxy, clear up any lingering questions. From the team that is bringing you the TU (a few of which are known as the dynamic duo of Greg and Chad), here's more information about some changes that may soon be coming your way. When reading over the specifics, please keep in mind these options—which are still being fine-tuned, altered, and generally played around with—will live in their own special area. You'll be able to go into a specific hopper, check out the adjustments, and provide feedback on your experiences. And it is with that feedback that we'll be able to provide the best possible experience over time. So repeat after me: conventional Reach gameplay will continue to exist alongside this new stuff. Also, there's no place like home. Or something like that, anyway.


Sorry about the non-working link in the last post btw.

When I have sometime I think I'll spend some time researching this and developing an app that'll enable people to easily alter these values and tweak their Reach experience to exactly what they'd like.

Edit:

Are the 7 new float values you found at offset x00000A100 or so? If so I noticed that they aren't in the either the 85% bloom or the Zero Bloom variants I pulled out of the TU Beta playlist they launched Oct. 4th not really sure where to look for those values every variant I've looked at seems to have wildly different code even if the variants are very similar (identical from the point of view of the in-game editor). I've isolated chunks that are always the same, still there are very large portions that always seem to differ for reason I can't figure out.

This post has been edited by Garzahd: 12 October 2011 - 07:39 AM


#28 User is offline   ddxcb 

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 07:23 AM

Any update on megalo or how the security/checks for game types and sandbox.maps?

I have research some game types but don't know what security or how to calculate the area it used.

#29 User is offline   kornman00 

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 01:25 PM

I won't be publishing any info on how the megalo engine works until after Halo4 comes out

#30 User is offline   ddxcb 

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 11:23 PM

View Postkornman00, on 02 February 2012 - 01:25 PM, said:

I won't be publishing any info on how the megalo engine works until after Halo4 comes out


Aww any reason why, who knows how long the outsource will take for 343.

#31 User is offline   kornman00 

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 07:28 AM

I'm already responsible for the Reach "pelican gate" scandal, I'd rather not be tied to yet another thing that ruins a Halo game, let alone the same game. I could talk about Megalo in a general sense and not even touch on the underlying blf format, but then people would still pester me to either 1) Make a Megalo editor (if they're mod kiddies) or 2) Publish the storage formats (if they consider themselves programmers, so they can try to make it themselves).

If 343i can't deliver on the promised Holiday 2012 release, not only will they have to answer to Microsoft suits, but an angry mob of Halo fans who are already playing the cautious game with this new studio (even if they do have some of the people who worked on or around the previous games, that doesn't make it the same formula as before; the studio is still new)

tl;dr Because I can

#32 User is offline   ddxcb 

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 03:13 AM

View Postkornman00, on 02 February 2012 - 01:25 PM, said:

I won't be publishing any info on how the megalo engine works until after Halo4 comes out


So the moment of truth...

#33 User is offline   kornman00 

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 12:17 PM

I gave my code for reading/writing megalo variants to a friend as he was trying to write an editor for it, but I haven't heard of any progress. If it's not going anywhere, maybe I'll have something ready by the end of the year.

#34 User is offline   donut1010 

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 04:48 AM

I just re-found this forum a few days ago, and the amount of nostalgia is amazing here. I can't believe the names I knew back in the day are still here. Anyhow, kornman, the end is neigh. Of this year that is... Do you have any plans to release any details about this stuff? It's very interesting. I would say that publishing a white paper would be the best way to do it if your friend hasn't followed through.

Thanks

#35 User is offline   kornman00 

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 06:53 AM

My friend is one of the Horizon devs, and I've been having to work more on it myself while they were away during the winter vacation days. While there wouldn't be any white-paper type stuff released before the year is up due to agreements put in place (and due to other time investments, like getting OpenSauce 3.1 readied for release next month), I'm hoping we can have the release of the first version of the variant editor in Horizon early next year.

#36 User is offline   AMD 

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:41 PM

View Postkornman00, on 28 December 2012 - 06:53 AM, said:

My friend is one of the Horizon devs, and I've been having to work more on it myself while they were away during the winter vacation days. While there wouldn't be any white-paper type stuff released before the year is up due to agreements put in place (and due to other time investments, like getting OpenSauce 3.1 readied for release next month), I'm hoping we can have the release of the first version of the variant editor in Horizon early next year.


Do you know if Horizon has any plans to make that editor Premium-only?

#37 User is offline   kornman00 

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 11:03 PM

I leave the business side of things up to them, but I believe that's what they initially plan to do, yes.

#38 User is offline   Nuklear 

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 06:26 AM

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I'd much rather the information be open to the community, as that's the only way to ensure these sort of things will be continuously developed, via a community effort.


Changed your mind, I see.

#39 User is offline   kornman00 

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 07:05 AM

No, unlike your offer I still keep the rights to do whatever I wish with the stuff I've researched/developed. I don't need to detail my deal with the Horizon guys (which was started before your PM), but it didn't cause me to have to sell out my work

Nuklear, on 23 November 2012 - 07:12 PM, said:

Are you open to the possibility of letting me purchase full rights to your scripts (which means they won't be released by you or anyone else including any open/closed source tools)?


The research/tech behind OpenSauce wasn't released and open sourced over night. This won't be either.

#40 User is offline   Nuklear 

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 07:30 AM

Please note that I explicitly stated that my offer was open to negotiation. However, I wasn't aware that the Horizon team contacted you before I did and that's understandable.

Can you at least tell us what you know? It would be nice to know the current scope of your research.

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